36 comments on “Siam In Rehab

  1. welcome back chico! we missed you! thanks for sharing this! didn’t know such a place existed. interesting how siam would turn out after a week in “boot camp”. hope you can post a video of siam performing the new tricks he would eventually learn in “rehab”.

  2. I’m very intersted to see how this story will turn out. ü

    BTW, glad u’re back, Chico. The show’s sooo bland w/o u. To be honest, I switch to a diff. morning radio show if u’re not on board. Welcome back.

  3. Hey Chico! Where on Earth have you been?
    I’ve been checking and checking and checking… and.. well, checking out this page everyday just to see if there is a new post..
    Oh well, I missed reading you stuff.
    For Siam, such a pretty dog. I felt so sad when I saw the dog’s photo when you left him.
    Siam’s like, “I’m sorry for crying in a morning.. I promise not to do it again.. ”😦
    Sigh..

  4. Hi Chico!

    I think you made a wrong move on this.
    Do you any idea what they do after you have boarded Siam?

    Since you already boarded your dog, you need to ask for video coverage of their training.

    Trust me on this, I have been in the dog world for more than 10 years.

    I suggest get a trainer who will train your dog at home and train YOU as well.

    Gerard

  5. glad you’re back chico! i was “patiently” waiting for your post for the past few days, then i realized that you’re out on vacation.

    anyway, siam shares a similar behavior with our puppy choco. he’s a shih tzu and he has this habit of “stealing” some of our stuff and hide under our sofa while he chews on his loot. what mom does after she retrieves the stolen stuff – tells a stern “NO” at choco and he just simply look at her.

    he still does it once a while when everyone in the house is busy doing our chores. parang ginagawa nya yun na magpapansin sa amin, i dunno if it’s his way of making lambing but we still reprimand him to be consistent.

    well, goodluck to siam. hope he’ll do well there at the boot camp. btw, love siam’s look..😀

  6. Aww… Maybe later you can get a trainer that will train *with you*, because later Siam needs to learn to take commands from you and not from another person. Siam is so amazingly shaggy! Must be awesome to cuddle with him. I miss our doggies while I am in Singapore.

  7. @gerard – If you want to have an idea about what happens after a dog is boarded here, you are free to add us up on FB so you can see photos and videos of the dogs’ condition after their owners entrust them to us. I already added you on FB (hope you will accept my friend request:).

    You can also contact the dog owners for some feedback. You are free to visit us or do research about us, but I suggest you qualify your assumptions with straight facts. Otherwise, they’ll be just that – assumptions. More power to your own dog boarding service though:)

    Anyway, back to Siam…we haven’t heard him cry or whine since Chico left him here yesterday. He’s pretty much comfortable with the new environment. During our walk this morning at 4AM, I taught him how to walk off leash. Watch the videos on our FB page.

    @faith – I believe, I also mentioned our TRAINING FOR DOG OWNERS to Chico. We don’t really teach dogs verbal commands like sit or stay. Please do understand that this is not about traditional basic obedience training. The focus here is correcting a dog’s behavior issues. Don’t worry because before Siam leaves our care, we will teach Chico as well on how to correct his dog’s unwanted behaviors.

  8. “Of course Lestre has a “no visiting” policy from us “parents” so as to have Siam’s full attention. We the enablers/spoilers might be an unwelcome distraction. Check out the PETiks Atbp website by clicking HERE. Their website is under renovation so you can check out their Facebook page in the meantime.”

    A very scary statement. The no visiting policy is very very SCARY.

    Actually trainer should welcome distraction after a few sessions. This is gauge if the dog has improved.

    You should go to another trainor or training facility.

  9. i think the reason why you think the “no visiting policy” is scary is because you haven’t been here yet. You haven’t seen what we do and can do. You haven’t even made an effort to contact us and here you are saying bad things about us.

    *still waiting for you to approve my friend request — you won’t really know until you do:)))

  10. Some really bad nut case… You know what, Lester? It ain’t worth wasting your precious time, my man. Just go ahead keep doing what you’re doing right now coz we think you’re doing great. These people are just some of them good examples of ‘SOUR GRAPES’, and you know what grapes are for? They are better in making wines… Much useful, much better than too much yadah-yadah without anything to prove… You got my drift?

    To Chico, I personally think you have made the right decision for Siam. You’ll see this in God’s time… Vaya con dio….

  11. i actually think there are issues with many training centers. My posts are my opinions and not a direct attack to u.
    The only part that i think is directly for u is the no visiting policy. I dont get it. I train as well,even when owner is with d dog.
    As 4 ur fb invite, i wil add whoever i want. Sorry that does not include u.

  12. i believe in you Sir Gerard.. “no visiting policy” is really scary.. why should the “training center” hide your pet.. what’s going on that the owner doesn’t have to see.. just sayin..

  13. For the record, my first suggestion for this dog was the Training For Dog Owners, where the human and the dog can experience the training together. Why Chico chose the current program is his decision. Bottom line, Chico and I have an understanding.

    The friend request is actually an open challenge for you to VERIFY if your ASSUMPTIONS are right. It doesn’t actually mean that I want to be your friend. It’s sad that you missed the point and even sadder that you are scared to see that your OPINIONS are, in fact, baseless. You want to create this grim picture because of my no visiting policy — well, you’re welcome to observe, even stay here for as long as you want. Just make sure to bring your own food and water; the cage I can provide:) We have nothing to hide. Shame on you for even implying that I would do anything bad to Siam — really, shame on you.

  14. To Mr. Gerard Caterdilla the “10 year” dog trainer.

    One Question: What do you know about dog behavior? Oh right. you just train. Nevermind.

    -Eric

  15. Petiks- i actually had a lot of experience na maraming nasasaktan na aso and we had to rescue them because of poor training techniques.
    as i said, opinion ko ang mga sinabi ko and not an attack towards you or your busines. The only part that is directed towards your busines is the no visiting policy.
    It’s a very known fact in the dog industry that training centers with no visiting policy has had its share of bad light. meron ang mga surprise visits na nahuhuli ng may ari sinasaktan ang aso nila – pinapalo, nilulublob sa tubig, too much grip on leash/collar, etc.
    Take in the case of Cesar Milan, super sikat siya. PERO there were some clients who found out na nananakit siya ng mga aso para sumunod sa kanya kaya nagkaron rin ng speculations kung talaga bang na co correct ang behavior ng aso o natatakot lang.
    yun lang ang sinasabi ko PETiks. Please, do not take offense. Ang mahirap kase sa marami sa atin, mali ang interpretation sa sinasabi ng ibang tao.
    now if behavior correction is what you are saying is the goal, then you would have informed Chico that the training must happen at home. as that is the natural environment of the dog. it is a known fact that behavior correction starts with the people and other animals around the natural environment of the dog. if the people around and other animals are not trained first then it would be difficult for the trainee to understand what is happening. also, you need to keep the dog in it’s natural state para mas madali matuto (im sure you will say pwede naman sa ibang lugar, and yes pwede naman kaso mas matagal ang acceptance due to adjustment). it’s good na hindi umiyak si siam sa yo pero that doesnt necessarily mean na tama yon. for all we know meron na rin siya nararamdaman internally.
    ergo, for me, mas mahirap i train ang amo kesa sa aso. i, myself has this tendency to be a softee sa sarili kong aso. kaya major pigil ako when my own dogs start to act up on me.
    with regard to your invite as a challenge, i dont need to make verifications as most of the videos are either rehearsed or planned. so no need to challenge my thoughs. by the way, I checked our mutual friends, we have 33 friends in common and some of them are in the dog show arena. kaw na lang magtanong about me since ikaw naman ang parang may gusto malaman bakit ako nagsasabi ng mga opinion ko. then maybe youll find out kung baseless nga ang mga opinion ko. and again, its not directed to you but base on my experience.
    sorry if you feel attacked but i am not giving a direct attack towards you. i am just expressing what i know has historically happened.
    now if you feel strongly that you have nothing to hide with your no visiting policy, change it. why not put an area where the owners can visit without the dogs catching the scent of their owners? pwede di ba? oh well suggestion lang baka isipin mo nagmamando naman ako sa business mo.

    eric – actually, it’s trainOr. people who train animals are called trainOrs. anyway, minsan ay namamali ko rin naman ang pag type ko. Yes, I have been training (whether ako ang teacher or student) for more than 10 years. it’s a continuous process – never ending.
    there are different types, show handling, behavior correction, obedience, agility, etc. i think agility ang mahirap at mamahalin ang gamit na kelangan to fully train a dog sa agility.
    show handling is the easiest as don ako nag start out.
    dog behavior is the longest and super continuous. break the training, you break the behavior.

    sanelear – just like you, i am entitled to my opinion.

    anyway this is the last post as wala naman mangyayari since siam is not my dog and petiks is not my business. i am just expressing my own thoughts. wala naman nakapost na warning na not all comments are accepted. lol.

    happy friday.

    • Those boarding centers you’re talking about who maltreat dog boarders should not be in that kind of business anyway. But don’t make a general statement. It doesn’t make you a good trainer even if you have a 10-year experience. It’s not for you to say that you’re good, let other people evaluate your work. You’re just bitter coz Chico trusted Petiks and not you!!!! Sorry for you…

  16. I asked you this: Do you know anything about dog behavior?

    “It’s a very known fact in the dog industry that training centers with no visiting policy has had its share of bad light. meron ang mga surprise visits na nahuhuli ng may ari sinasaktan ang aso nila – pinapalo, nilulublob sa tubig, too much grip on leash/collar, etc.” Quoting from your post

    Is that a fact or assumption?
    How sure are you?
    Have you talked to any dog behaviorist?

    And it’s a dog rehab NOT TRAINING. Much like a rehab of a person in real life. Do human behaviorist hurt people in order to be rehabbed? No. That goes to same for dogs.

    Dog psychology and dog training are two different things.

    Dog training is for a human’s own happiness to see their dog doing what they want.

    Dog psychology is knowing what’s wrong with the dog, correcting the wrong behavior.

    Have you even just sat down and observed what your dog is talking to you?

  17. “i actually had a lot of experience na maraming nasasaktan na aso and we had to rescue them because of poor training techniques. as i said, opinion ko ang mga sinabi ko and not an attack towards you or your busines. The only part that is directed towards your busines is the no visiting policy. It’s a very known fact in the dog industry that training centers with no visiting policy has had its share of bad light. meron ang mga surprise visits na nahuhuli ng may ari sinasaktan ang aso nila – pinapalo, nilulublob sa tubig, too much grip on leash/collar, etc.” – I do understand that you have a lot of personal horror stories about other training facilities with a no visiting policy. Voicing out your opinions about those is your god-given right, and I am not one to stop you from exercising it. My challenge to you is to exercise that right RESPONSIBLY, MATURELY, and PROFESSIONALLY. My question to you is: have you had any direct involvement with PETiks? None, correct? So there’s really no way for you to validate your opinions — in fact, you refuse to make an effort to validate your opinions. They are not opinions. They are mere assumptions — conclusions you have arrived at based on your previous experiences with bad trainers. It’s TRAINER, by the way. TRAINOR is a word listed under the heading of “ASK YOUR ENGLISH TEACHER” in big, bold letters. It’s only used by people who don’t consult any other reference (i.e. dictionary) besides their own exaggerated self-opinion. But I’m digressing…

    I dare you not to hide behind your “right to comment”. I dare you to validate your opinions, instead of speculating. PETiks is not like the other training centers that you are talking about. Don’t compare and don’t generalize. We’re not bad people. Anyone is welcome to check the condition of our boarders. Our glass windows and glass doors are open from 9AM – 5PM. You are also welcome to stay here at night to ensure that the dogs are treated well.

    Training centers with no visiting policy abuse their dog boarders.
    PETiks has a no visiting policy.
    Therefore, PETiks abuses its boarders.

    INVALID CONCLUSION! Again, don’t speculate, don’t compare, and don’t generalize until you have a solid foundation for your opinions about PETiks and our no visiting policy.

    “also, you need to keep the dog in it’s natural state para mas madali matuto (im sure you will say pwede naman sa ibang lugar, and yes pwede naman kaso mas matagal ang acceptance due to adjustment). – FEEL FREE TO INVESTIGATE IF SIAM IS HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME ADJUSTING TO THE NEW ENVIRONMENT:)

    “It’s good na hindi umiyak si siam sa yo pero that doesnt necessarily mean na tama yon. for all we know meron na rin siya nararamdaman internally.” – FEEL FREE TO BRING ALONG A VET TO CHECK IF SIAM IS SICK OR HAS INJURIES:)

    “with regard to your invite as a challenge, i dont need to make verifications as most of the videos are either rehearsed or planned.” – THIS IS NOT A DIRECT ATTACK, RIGHT? WELL, FOR A SECOND THERE I THOUGHT IT WAS. JUST MAKING SURE I DIDN’T MISINTERPRET YOUR OPINIONS HAHAHA. EH WALA NA TALAGA KAMING GINAWANG TAMA NYAN HAHAHA. LAHAT NA NG INVITATION NAMIN, YOU INTERPRETED WITH MALICE. YOU’RE OPINIONS ARE NOT ONLY OFFENSIVE, THEY ARE MALICIOUS AS WELL:)

    “now if you feel strongly that you have nothing to hide with your no visiting policy, change it. why not put an area where the owners can visit without the dogs catching the scent of their owners? pwede di ba? oh well suggestion lang baka isipin mo nagmamando naman ako sa business mo.” – UNTIL YOU FIND THE GUTS TO SEE FOR YOURSELF, I WILL NOT CHANGE MY POLICY JUST BECAUSE SOME MALICIOUS PERSON SAYS SO. AGAIN, anyone is welcome to check the condition of our boarders. Our glass windows and glass doors are open from 9AM – 5PM. You are also welcome to stay here at night to ensure that the dogs are treated well:)

  18. I agree that Mr. Gerard has no intentions of “direct attack” on PETiks, but the words he said are putting dirt on the name of PETiks. In my own opinion, I see that PETiks did the right thing. It is easier to rehab an animal around his own kind, a “pack of dogs” I should say. The dog must first be rehabilitated without any distractions, then after the goal has been achieved, you introduce now the distractions and put him back in his own place so you can correct unwanted behaviors without getting intense on the dog. I believe this is the gentlest way to rehab the dog.

    Training involves positive reinforcement by praising and giving treats, while ‘”dog rehab” uses dog psychology and the pack concept to get into the dog’s mind and correct unwanted behaviors that are not imprinted in the canine genes. PETiks is rehabilitating Siam, and at the same time promised that they will also teach Siam a few tricks to provide him mental challenge. The tricks are part of the training procedure. But, Siam is boarded for rehabilitation, not for training like what is accused of “training facilities” that Mr. Gerard mentioned.

  19. @Lester, Well said, my friend. Go for it…. People like this ought not to be attended or listened to as they are distractions. Just go ahead, keep doing what you’re doing my man. As a pinoy saying goes, ‘Pag ang puno daw mabunga, laging binabato’.
    @Gerard, Meron pang isang kasabihan sa sports, ‘The player who complains and so noisy about matters in a game, is usually the guy who drops the ball’. In other words, ‘LOSER’. Just my own humble opinion LOL… you see sometimes, too much talk can be lethal not only for yourself and for your business… But at least you were right about one thing, IT’S NOT YOUR BUSINESS… Opinions, to me is an overrated word. But let me qualify just for sake of argument, Why on earth would a honorable man voice out his opinion about something if he has no vested interest on it? Ref below.
    “I think you made a wrong move on this.
    Do you any idea what they do after you have boarded Siam?
    Since you already boarded your dog, you need to ask for video coverage of their training.
    Trust me on this, I have been in the dog world for more than 10 years.To refresh your memory, see below.”
    You should already understand by now that you are in fact, PISSING, on somebody else’s pool…
    I suggest that you be very careful with what you say or post… Just saying…

  20. This Gerard guy is in the dog training industry as well? and he regularly reads Chico’s blog?
    Maybe you are just “bitter” coz Mr Garcia entrusted Siam to Lestre and not you?
    Considering, it would be a lot easier for Chico to contact you instead of going through a drawer full of business cards to look for Lestre’s card?

    and yeah, “TRAINOR”, so funny.. you cant even spell it right. LOL.

    I’m just sayin.

  21. i have dogs… if the dog daycare say that there is “no visiting policy” i will backout i will side to mr. gerald…im just about thinking of the welfare of my dog…
    think about it i will not see what they are doing to my precious kiddie… kung mag close circuit camera sila na i can log in so i can see her papayag ako… kawawa din yung kiddie ko kasi strangers yung nagaalaga sakanya and di nya ako makikita… san nyo ba ni base yung training nyo… san kayo nag training… can you post your cridentials? or direct me to your website…
    sana ni try muna ni chico na i correct nya yung dog nya bago ibigay sa iba… kung wala syang patience sana di nalang sya nag alaga ng aso… as a parent its your resposibility to takecare of him. if you really love your dog bakit ang dali sayo ibigay sa iba ang dog mo. siguro di pa ok ang bonding nyo ni siam kaya sya ganun… chico should spent time with him as often as possible…para kay siam ikaw lang kakilala nya…its like you abandoned him… sana kunin mo na lang sya… as soon as possible. i will side with siam… sana ok sya dun…

    • If you think that our behavior control training policy does not suit you, then by all means, don’t pursue it. Our clients are always informed about our methods and policies before they board their dogs here for rehab. The decision is up to them. There’s no coercion involved. Suffice to say, we (dog owner and PETiks) are aware of our own responsibilities before and after the training is done.

      It’s actually easy for anyone to say “Ayaw ko sa no visiting policy nila, baka kasi kung ano gawin nila sa aso ko.” That’s a valid concern and we understand the hesitation. However, I suggest that before you relay to other people your “PERSONAL, MALICIOUS ASSUMPTIONS” as to WHY people leave their dogs here and WHAT are being done to them, get your facts straight first. And I repeat: don’t speculate, don’t compare, and don’t generalize until you have a solid foundation for your opinions about PETiks and our no visiting policy.

      If you want to know how Siam is doing, check out our Facebook. We uploaded videos there that we have “rehearsed and planned” for your viewing. hihihi @_@

  22. @Leimi, Point taken. However, after all has been said, perhaps we can check out what can be done… How about taking up the challenge to come up to Petik’s premises and see for yourself what’s going on with the dogs or if you want to go further ahead, why not spend a night or two in the premises to validate your doubts and/or concerns. Otherwise, it would be the same story again, right? As your poor friend Gerard said, we are all entitled to our opinions. Your poor friend Gerard apparently hasn’t got enough balls to accept the challenge simply coz he knows that he screwed up somewhere and fell on the trap of being jealous,professionally, of course. Since, from my own point of view, Gerard thinks that Lester who operates Petik’s, is a threat to his business and not only that, he, in fact, was trying to steal a client from Petik’s. So, what else can we say… But to be honest with you, Leimi, Petik’s is not about business, it is about people mixing with their pets. If you take up my challenge, you will be able to see it for yourself. My qualifications? I am just one satisfied client and a friend of Lester and the whole Petik’s family. If you want, you can join one of our pack walks. Its a socializing time between people and the dogs… I’m sure if you really love your dog as you say you are… you would also appreciate walking your dog, right? A lot of exciting things to follow once you get acquainted with the ‘PACKERS’…

  23. Gerard, gerard, gerard….tsk tsk tsk. ngayon alam mo na…. na ang spelling ng trabaho mo ay TRAINER..=D Eto direct attack talaga to. =D hihihihihi

  24. Hi, Chico! I am a HUGE fan of your morning show with Delamar! I wake up at 6am even though y classes start in the afternoon pa for it. haha. Anyway, glad I stumbled upon your blog, finally. :))

    I would appreciate a look over too.😀 More power and continue with your awesome, awesome Top Ten’s.🙂 Walk well.🙂

  25. I’ve been Lestre’s client – for my dog Brittany – for several months now and I must say that he’s been taking good care of my dog whenever I board her with them. I just have to put it out there just because the assumption of Gerard, I think, is a little premature, hasty and inaccurate. Just saying.

  26. @LEIMI:
    sana ni try muna ni chico na i correct nya yung dog nya bago ibigay sa iba… kung wala syang patience sana di nalang sya nag alaga ng aso… as a parent its your resposibility to takecare of him. if you really love your dog bakit ang dali sayo ibigay sa iba ang dog mo. siguro di pa ok ang bonding nyo ni siam kaya sya ganun… chico should spent time with him as often as possible…para kay siam ikaw lang kakilala nya…its like you abandoned him… sana kunin mo na lang sya… as soon as possible. i will side with siam… sana ok sya dun…

    —-> WHY ARE YOU QUESTIONING MR. GARCIA AS A PET OWNER NOW? any decision he makes for his dogs is up to him. wala ka na dun kung anong decision niya. He is a pet lover, from what we know, hindi lang isa ang dog niya. Did you know na kahit yung mga dogs na laging kasama or yung mga “spoiled” e may issues rin? Its not about how much time you spend with them. If they have issues na hindi mo nacorrect, kahit every minute kayo magkasama, THEY WILL STILL HAVE ISSUES. Ang dogs parang tao, kanya kanya attitude/personality. Kaya nga he sought help from a dog behaviorist para masolve yung issues ni Siam. If Chico has decided na ipa rehab si Siam, that doesn’t mean na he abandoned him. Hello?? gagastos ba si Chico if he doesn’t love Siam? Sana he literally just gave him away to anyone. The fact na he wants Lestre to solve Siam’s issues, spending for his rehabilitation and training, and his willingness to also learn how to deal and solve his dog’s issues just shows na he loves and cares for his dog.. Maybe you should get a dog para you’ll know what you are talking about before you go bashing Chico as a pet parent in his own blog. and if you are really worried about Siam, Lestre already invited Gerard to their shop. you can come with him.. sabi nga nila just bring food and maybe a pillow.. They have a big cage there and i-aaircon pa nila kayo overnight, im sure you and Gerard will sleep soundly.

    and yeah.. its crEdentials..

  27. Hi, Chico! Wow, I did not know this “rehab” thing can create a stir in your blog. I have a 5-year old long haired chihuahua (Jasper), a breed known for it’s “issues”, but I did not know that before I got him. Just like you with Siam, I got instantly attached to Jasper when I saw him in the pet shop and him to me. I bought several books about Chihuahuas that helped me care for him from a 2-&-1/2-month old puppy. He’s now behaved and good mannered at home, but too excited when I bring him out of my condo unit every morning. He doesn’t like Shih-Tzu & Maltese breeds and middle aged women. LOL! I don’t know why. When he was a puppy he would growl at all women and girls. Now naman he loves gray haired old men, di naman ako gray-haired old man. He will choose any gray haired old man over me when we are walking at the roof deck of our condo. Again I don’t know why? LOL! I agree that each dog has it’s own personality and I’m just glad my Jasper doesn’t give me and my neighbors problems. c”,)

    I’m quite impressed by the pictures posted by PETiks on Facebook. Siam can now do tricks & can manage not to chew on his favorite “toys”. I’m interested not really with the “rehab” service by PETiks but the boarding service. I only had a vacation requiring a plane ride once in the past 5 years because of Jasper. During that one time time I boarded him at the pet shop where I got him. I was away for 3 days only but when I got back I felt he was not happy because he missed the human interaction. If I need to be out of the house for more than a day, I’ll bring Jasper with me in the bus in his “basket”. It’s like travelling with a baby in a crib & a “baby bag” for all his needs! LOL! Sometimes I bring his stainless folding cage pa. I commute because I don’t own a car. Now I need to find a place for him to stay for my first out of the country trip since 1996. Can I ask a favor? Other than PETiks, can you suggest other pet boarding houses preferably in or near Makati. Di naman maselan si Jasper and does not need 24 hour supervision. I don’t think the pet shop where I left him before will be a good place. Baka kasi magka-abandonment issues si Jasper. LOL!

    I congratulate you! I think you made the right decision bringing Siam to PETiks. If I’ll find a way to get there and find it accessible, then I’ll board Jasper in PETiks, too. Do update us on how Siam is doing after the “rehab”.

    Thank you and more power to you & your radio programs. I’m still hoping for a chance to meet Delle in one of RX’s activities. c”,)

      • Thank you for the suggestion, keiserquinne! I really appreciate it. I visited the website & the facebook page. They don’t have their rates posted anywhere and they call their ‘Boarding’ service as ‘Hotel’ service. Wow! Sounds expensive! LOL! They are only open Tuesday – Sunday (Closed on Mondays), 9 AM – 6 PM. Wala nang ibang info about the hotel service? Does that mean I can only inquire/transact with them during their office hours? I have this idea kasi that a hotel is open 24-7. Hehehe! (Just joking! I hope BetterDog won’t be offended.) Anyway, I think this BetterDog dog care facility is above my league. Kasi I’m just a simple person needing an affordable boarding service for my chi. c”,)

  28. *munching on popcorn* that was, errr… interesting.😀

    i’ll just wait for chico’s post AFTER the boot camp and his assessment. that’s what matters anyway.🙂

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